Learning to Lead w/John Hinds, Marty Silverman, and Tommy Tinajero: a sneak peak of RL's upcoming School Leadership Academy

Episode 15 November 30, 2023 00:40:25
Learning to Lead w/John Hinds, Marty Silverman, and Tommy Tinajero: a sneak peak of RL's upcoming School Leadership Academy
Love, Sweat, & Tears: Ingredients for Transformative Campus Leadership
Learning to Lead w/John Hinds, Marty Silverman, and Tommy Tinajero: a sneak peak of RL's upcoming School Leadership Academy

Nov 30 2023 | 00:40:25

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Hosted By

Beth Hernandez

Show Notes

We know that school leaders are required to do more and more each school year, and often with less training and experience than ever before. We know that a great, capable school leader can impact student outcome just as much as classroom teachers. We know that campus leaders are feeling isolated, stretched thin, and thrown into the deep end- often without the support or resources they need to feel confident and capable. 

We also know some pretty incredible practitioners with boots on the ground that want to help. So, after months and months of listening, planning, re-working, and testing- we're giving our podcast audience a sneak peak at the vision and process we've gone through to build a systemized platform that builds connection, confidence, and capability for campus leaders (and aspiring campus leaders!). In this special episode, Beth chats with Tommy Tinajero, Responsive Learning's CEO, and two of the dozen+ consultants that have helped turn this dream into a reality- John Hinds and Marty Silverman. Hear the story behind how this project came to be, and why it's so special. If you find yourself with questions, want more info, or would like to be a part of this in any way- you can email Beth at [email protected] - she'll get you all the info you need. 

Listen to Marty Silverman's episode of Love, Sweat, & Tears here: https://responsivelearning.castos.com/episodes/seen-valued-heard-how-to-set-the-stage-for-lasting-impact-by-meaningfully-connecting-with-your-community-wmartin-silverman

Listen to John Hinds' episode here: https://responsivelearning.castos.com/episodes/theres-a-system-for-that-with-john-hinds

You can find some of the research mentioned here: https://wallacefoundation.org/report/how-principals-affect-students-and-schools-systematic-synthesis-two-decades-research

And as always, you can access RL's library of PD, the PD to Practice System, our blogs and more at https://www.responsivelearning.com/

 

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Episode Transcript

0:06 Welcome back to low sweating tears ingredients for transformative campus leadership. This week's episode is a little bit different, kind of outside of our usual format. Today we're talking about a passion project from responsive learning. I brought in three guests, we have Tottington, a harrow, our CEO at RL, and then two incredible folks that I can't wait for you to hear from. You've met them already. On the podcast, we have John Hines, and Marty Silverman. They've been administrators for a long time, they'll tell you more about that in this episode. And if you really want to know more, and you haven't had a chance to listen to their podcast episode yet, please go back. And listen, they were so fantastic when they came that we had to bring them back for more and just kind of share with you this this kind of secret we've been keeping for a while. We're developing a whole school leadership academy for administrators, because we've seen the burden the administrators have right now. We've seen that disconnect the need for community for peers for mentors, and we had to do something to help and so we'll talk a little bit a lot about that today. Um, I cannot wait for you guys to listen. Enjoy. Alright, well, Tommy, John, and Marty, you guys have all been on this podcast before. So our listeners would be a little bit familiar with you. But before we dive in too much, I want you to just give me a real short synopsis of what you've done in education, where you've done it and why you've done it. Tommy, you want to go first? 1:48 Oh, I guess? Sure. So my name is Tommy Pinheiro. I'm the CEO of responsive learning. I got into this business, from an invitation from a former superintendent Kay Carr, who was the president of the company and join them and I, you know, my job was to just get things going, make things happen. So this was back in 2007, or eight, I believe. So it's been a long time. And along the journey, I have met some really fantastic people and just so glad to be part of the work, the important work that we're all doing. 2:28 Alright, John, tell us a little bit about yourself real quick. 2:30 Hey, I'm a retired principal for roughly 17 and a half years, retired right before locked down. privileged to be at three different print different schools, all completely different in the makeup of the school. And really had some great mentors along the way. Got him with responsive learning, maybe a year ago, maybe two, something like that, and have been excited about creating content for new and existing administrators. 3:08 Awesome. And Marty tell us a little bit about yourself. 3:13 So I am a recently retired after 40 year career in Texas public Edie 33 years of that in administration. Mostly here in San Antonio taught for three years in Houston though, when I first moved here from New York. Back 40 years ago, I had the opportunity to meet Tommy, fortunately, last summer, this past summer, at epsa when he was my tech support. As I was getting ready to present I do a presentation. And I've been happy to be connected to responsive learning as well. Same and free with you Beth as well. 3:53 Yeah. 3:56 I got wrangled I got wrangled into that I was just walking by saying hi to Jerry Spillman, who's also their customer and friends with Marty. And they said, Hey, by the way, this mic isn't working. Can you help? Maybe? 4:11 right place at the right, no, for real. Okay. So we're kind of, I want to just share with our listeners, this project of the school leadership academy that you guys have all been very instrumental in thinking about and talking through and making sure that it's really fantastic rich resource for administrators. I'd love to hear a little bit about the story of how all of this got started. So tell me if you can kind of share with us the very early stages and then how you brought John and Marty into the fold. 4:43 Sure. Well, so we have been known as a PD company for a long time. We're in over 400 school districts in Texas and you know, over 1000 across the US and about Four years ago, I started looking at some research on the effectiveness of school of PD. You know, and just how effective how, how does PD make a difference in the classroom? And it turns out, it doesn't really do that. Well, I mean, it's I think the numbers around 30% actually makes a difference in the classroom. And so if that started our journey and thinking of, well, I started this, I thought, well, is that true with RPD? Is that the same thing with our PD. And so we just started our journey on moving beyond PD and thinking this through. So we created a product called PD to practice that helps guides teachers through not just PD, but all the way through application, there's coaching and collaboration, and there's all kinds of it basically is a is like a, it kind of takes PLCs and puts them on steroids to make things happen. And report back to administrators. It's a really great program. And that's what we started there. And then, you know, I were partners with temsa. And every year, we have a really nice dinner with their executive committee. And we always ask questions to find out what's going on in the industry. And we started to learn that there are a lot of new principals coming into the fold, I mean, just with there's a lot exiting, and they're, they're being replaced by very young, and sometimes not very experienced administrators. And they're, they're just kind of, you know, swimming out there. I mean, they're thrown into the deep end in a lot of ways. And so we started this journey of thinking through how can we help and after a lot of research, we kind of boiled it down to its they need, you know, there's PD that they need their training on skills and things that they can be doing in their schools. But then also, they needed to be connected, it's being isolated was a big problem. They're kind of on an island on their own. And they needed connection. So we were thinking, we, we created the Learning Academy, or the student, I'm sorry, the school leader Academy to include peer networking and collaboration, to once they learn to deepen their learning, and then to start planning on application, but then there's this other piece that's really important that it's hard to do sometimes, is to connect them with experts, right mastered level administrators like John and Marty, that have been have been there done that they know how to navigate a lot of these issues, they know how to set things up. And so those, those are the three main components of the leadership program. So what happened was I, initially, we started just building PD for leaders. And that's when I met John at TSA. And we've had a really, you know, we've had a lot of really great conversations become a friend of mine. And, you know, we're both very passionate about helping schools and astute really students, and the best way to do that is with teachers and with administrators, right. So, so we've been really passionate and just talking about those things, and planning. And then I serendipitously met Marty, and, you know, and just started kind of building this team of people who are like them, who can really inform us. And so part of that process, you know, kind of the way we do businesses, we always meet with these people to find out what is needed. And so we just started a process of doing that. And that's how I think when I introduced Marty and John, we had a kind of, we hired some consultants, these four people to come together to help us think things through. And John, we invited John John brought on one of his people, Alicia. And then I bought Martin and another guy, Mike. And we just started diving in trying to figure out exactly what needs to happen. 9:02 So you'll tell me about some of those very early conversations trying to identify the gaps that we could help administrators kind of get more deeper. 9:17 Yeah, when we started the conversation, it was okay. There are different levels of expertise. When you become a principal, if you had a solid foundation as an assistant principal and had great mentors, the you're probably more prepared than someone who's been an assistant principal for two years and you're now you got the job. And so we realized we needed to differentiate what type of training we were going to offer and design content around and with Marty and my and mine and Mike's experience, is like Okay, so now we've got I get really detailed and customized training for different types of administrators. And I personally believe a confident leader makes better decisions. And so if we could create some good content, that would sort of feel like someone's coming up right beside you, like, no problem, I gotcha. Let's just walk through this topic, whether it be communication or culture, or supervising, we got it, we're gonna walk you through these steps will give you time to think about it reflect where you are, what kind of plan you need to get where you want to be, and really get to a point where you're confident in that area, then we could provide a great service for these new people coming in. And so from my perspective, this is a great opportunity for those school districts who don't have an enormous central office to help on all of these topics. They can come to responsive learning, and have just about any topic addressed so that they can gain confidence through just being informed. Marty, 11:21 Marty, do you have Yeah, what was that like for you, as you kind of stepped into this, 11:25 you know, the only thing, the only thing I'd add to that is, is that the way content is delivered now is different than what used to be I think there used to be, and when I say used to be I'm talking about like, when I started being a principal, 30 years ago, it was it, there was some room and some time to connect with people in our in a more casual personal way. But I feel like because things have progressed to the to the point where a new principal, a new assistant principal has to be great right out of the chute, there's no there's not a whole lot of opportunity to, to learn through a bunch of mistakes that are preventable, that and that, you know, just the the benefit of having the delivery like this online, and, you know, at somebody's preferred time and available time, because we want people to also be able to, you know, live their life with their, at their school and with their families, and to be able to kind of carve out some time, I think that is one of the the biggest benefits and the most important ways that we can help serve new leaders. 12:47 So what were some of the next steps, as you guys kind of decided, yes, this is something we really need to do this would be a huge benefit. What were the next steps of kind of designing this system in a way that would function? Well, for crazy busy school leaders? 13:06 In the initial conversations, we, you know, there's there's a couple of things that came into play. One is, we wanted the the idea that we wanted to build content and connection and networking, and support, like the support, the continuous support is one of the major reasons why PD doesn't work, whether it's with teachers or administrators if they don't have support. And, you know, Marty talked about it, you know, in the past, there being more time for personal connection, and development and engagement. And that's all very important, you know, when you're working in a large organization, and so, especially when you're trying to add something new to your skill set, and apply it, right. So you need to you need those people that you can talk to and say how, how did I How did you do this, you know, and you get to engage with each other. So when that's not happening, we had to be real purposeful about doing that. So the big piece was trying to make sure that whatever we do, we need to build in support. But the second thing was the content, the topics had to number one, you know, when when principals and these leaders are hired, the district already provides different, they, you know, they there's already topics that they want to push through. But what are the ones that they don't push through? What are the ones that are left beyond? I think, Dr. and Dr. Kennedy from a former deputy soup from from a slide I was saying that a lot of times as she her job was to help a middle school principals develop. And a lot of times they just assumed that they had a lot of these skills. And then after eight months, they realized that you don't and to recover from that. It's very hard to do at that point. So we were trying to think how can we be really into Original from the from the very beginning. And so the topics that we covered in, in our system, it's we I like to think of it as right on time, like right on time topics, which means that, that when they need it is not the moment they need it, they need it a little bit before, so that they can wrestle with it, talk about it, work it, so that when they actually need it, they're skilled at it. So, you know, an example would be, you know, when the when do when does a principal need to have a really good speech, or I will call it a stump speech. Before teachers, I mean, they need a stump speech for teachers, they need one for the students, they need one for parents, they need one for you know, just the group. And so when you develop that, well, you don't do it when the teachers are on your, you know, they're in the classroom, they started, you needed to do it, in July or even before that. So that's kind of what we do is we build those systems. And that was kind of at the early part of our development when we were putting it together. But John, and John and Marty, what else? What else was in your mind at that time? 16:11 Well, one of the things, one of the things that you just hit on that I think is important is that, you know, one of the traditional models of doing PD, especially for teachers, and admin, as well, is we front load everything, we teach everything important all at once, at the beginning of the year. And sometimes that's not when you need that information. Sometimes you need to do what needs to be done first, first, and get good at what needs to be done first, first, and then a little bit later, you you know, start wrestling with a topic that is, and you gave a good example, and I'll give another one, you know, when do you start doing surveys and getting information from people, you know, you don't need to know that deeply in, in July, you need to know that at least starting, you know, around mid year. So it's, it's knowing when something is going to be important, and kind of highlighting it at that time to make it you know, relevant, right, when you need in addition to 17:15 that, that just in time of cycling topics through because you're not just going to watch a course and I got it, we're good? No, it's like, we're gonna cycle that back in about three months, so that you can learn a little bit deeper on that topic. So it seems like what we've done is really thought through if I were a brand new or level two or whatever, Administrator, what would I need? When? And how would I need it? And that's what we've really tried to be personally purposeful about in this whole project. What 17:56 are some things John and Marty, especially that in the middle of this have just made you really excited to dive in and spend so much of your time and energy on this project is you're having these discussions, and these light bulbs are going off? What are the kinds of things that are exciting you about this? 18:17 Well, I can tell you right off, you know, when I started being a principal, I would have loved to have had this support, and this type of development. And I didn't and I'm John, I'm sure you didn't, either. It's it's, it's so gratifying that it was that it's a process that's been thought out by practitioners, you know, not necessarily just university people who haven't been in the field for a long time. But people who have been working on this or people who are, you know, have been in the field recently and kind of know what it is like right now. And so I think that, to me is is probably one of the strongest parts of this that makes me excited to keep working 19:04 working with secondary principals is I'm an elementary guy, right? Always been Elementary, but working with secondary principals. Rarely do I find one who will say, I don't know much about that. Because they get thrown into these big, big campuses. They're like mayors of these small cities. And they're just expected to know how to do things, and rarely have met one. Love everyone that I work with, but I've never like rarely found one says, Hey, I need help in this area. And so if we can set up these great modules for not only secondary, but principals who may be in an environment, that it's not okay, it's not safe. It's not the thing to do to ask for training in certain areas. It's like fine, we gotcha. Just, you know, go home, watch a module, you'll learn a little bit more, and then rinse and repeat. And then what Tommy has done is added in that support the coaching piece. It's like, okay, we're gonna help a lot of principals in this new wave of principals, get their feet underneath them and get some confidence right off the bat, like, like Marty said, as you know, right out of the chute, you got to start making decisions. I mean, that's just the job. And if you can front load some of this before you have to make some of those critical decisions. It's just gonna save some heartache. 20:38 Tell me, what about you, as you kind of, you know, dove straight into this. What are some things that continually excite you about this project we're getting to work on? 20:50 Well, I mean, personally, I just love meeting great people. I mean, I This journey has been incredible. I mean, people like John and Marty and others, I mean, just incredible. But But I think, you know, 111, of the things that really clicked for me was that that helped me to just get really excited about this, starting the journey was that, you know, they, we found some research that was that showed that, and I always knew, you know, it was easy to make the connection between student achievement and a teacher. Right, that's easy. But then when I saw that the, the impact that a principal has on student achievement is the same, it's right at that same level that a teacher what I thought, man, we need to be getting into, we need to help school leaders, right. And then the other thing that that I would got excited about is that, as we were interviewing and talking to a lot of people at the tech tech conference in other places, we also learned that school districts as as much as they try, a lot of them just have a hard time, not just providing support and training to existing APs and principles, but they they're really not doing, there's a need to build a bench of leaders that are still in the classroom, but aspire to be a principal, and start preparing them then. So that when they land on the job, they come in with a lot more confidence in skills and, and connection. Right. So that was the other thing. And and then as we were working with this, you know, all these amazing people, the structure just started to roll out. So the framework of the training is built on our hear some echo. Not sure what happened. Let me see if I can, oh, I can't do that. So anyway, I don't hear it anymore. That's okay. So the framework is really built on just on time topics, right? So the training, then, every one of those courses, there's this thing that we call a virtual peer network. So it's a virtual end the whole thing, it can be done virtually, right. So it's nice that people don't have to come off the campus go somewhere, they can stay on the campus campus is safer. All of that is really, you know, important to keep in mind. But so after a session is an online session happens, then there are virtual peer network sessions, where there's a collection of people, a group of people that are in that same position, that are are meeting with a coach to discuss the topic and dive deeper into it and start planning and talking about what I can apply in our schools, right. So that's, and they get to interact with each other, the most important thing is that there's a peer networking that happens. So somebody on there can reach out to another person say, Hey, I like what you said, can we talk about it and that sort of thing. There's a connection like that. And then the, the, the actor that a lot, there's probably about one topic or one project a month, that has to do with that topic. And those groups are much smaller. It's also virtual. And it's led by people like John and Marty, these experts, and they guide them through a project of planning the project, thinking about how they're going to measure the impact, and things like that. And then they get time to go apply it. And then they come back again to share their data and share their experience and how things went. So that's like a project. And then the last thing is mentoring. So the mentoring is everything is really kind of driven by the topic except the mentoring. We make people available. We make these experts available to all of our participants to call them at any time, or to schedule a meeting with them to talk about any topic. So it's, it's kind of again, it's like that Right on time topic, that may not be something that we're covering, it could be that a teacher or a principal has a parent, maybe something happened on their campus where the parent is really upset, called the superintendent, everything is just going haywire. And that principal doesn't know what to do. So they can call a person and just jump on a scheduled call with John or Marty or one of the others and say, can you tell me what, what's the best way to do this? What can I do? How do I protect the students? How do I protect, you know, the school and the teacher and, you know, just go through those topics. So those are just right on time, like something, a hot topic. And that really gets me excited, because that's, that's, you know, again, it goes back to without support, you can have a fantastic presenter with talking about something that is amazing. But without support, it doesn't, doesn't equal, it doesn't result in some change. But you can have like a mediocre conversation with somebody with support, and that will make a bigger impact. And so we're trying to get the really amazing stuff and the support together to to make a big difference. So that's, that's really kind of exciting to me. 26:15 Talk to me about some of the benefits of having this virtual peer network outside of your district. 26:25 Yeah, that's a huge thing. Beth, I was thinking about that, while Tommy was speaking, it's sometimes you know, the person you need to reflect with, vent with process with is, is, for lack of better word, it's safer. If that person is not somebody who's a colleague of yours that works with you. You may feel more comfortable and confident speaking about an issue, maybe one of your own shortcomings with somebody who is not right next to you. And that is, I think, a huge piece of this project, for sure. Well 27:02 think, yeah, to add to that, in enlarge districts, you have meetings built in, where you're going to go to a monthly title meeting, and then monthly principals meeting. And so you have those opportunities to talk to people. But in smaller districts, you just don't. And this would be huge. For the smaller districts who have one elementary campus and one secondary campus, they don't have anyone to talk to you, they don't have anyone to say, you know, have a conversation like, Oh, I'm in the ballpark, or I'm not in the ballpark. And you know, even in larger districts, you need someone outside of your district to talk to you at times, you just do. 27:49 Talk to me about maybe without giving too much away. But about those projects, I can hear some principals saying I don't need another thing to do. And I know that we've worked very hard to make sure that the projects are things that principals already have to get done. But rather than having to do it on their own, they have a network to kind of form those things with so can you guys give me some of the examples of the projects that you're really excited to get to work with these principals on. 28:24 And before, before we get on, I think I just want to highlight. And you know, John, and Marty can talk about the projects, or I can talk or whatever, you know, but the one thing you said is really important. It's every part of this is not something more to do, it's actually you have to do it anyway. But you get to do it with really great presenters and trainers and experts. And then you get to do it in a community of people and support, right, so that that's really an important thing. So you, you have to do it anyway. But let's just do it together. Right. So that's, I think, a really, I wanted to highlight that because a lot of times there's so they're already so busy. And if you think about how busy people get in any position, and if they're really busy, how much of what they need to do is really making an impact. And so in this situation, because of the support, what they do these important projects that we're working on, will will actually have a better shot at making a difference, right for the students, especially so anyway, you guys want to talk about a project. I can talk about one. I would say some of the I'll just throw some out. One of them is creating your stump speech. Another one is assessing school systems. John, you can talk about that one that's a really getting, you know, principal needs to start looking at the systems and processes in a school. There's another one has to do with school culture and doing an assessment engaging your stakeholders to do an assessment of of your school culture. There's One that has to do with engaging, effectively supporting your teachers through PLCs. There's another one has to do with how to how to identify teachers specific professional development needs, and then meeting those needs. So those are kind of falling in a couple of topics that are probably really important. So John and Marty, you can you can chew on those a little bit. Yeah, do 30:27 y'all have a specific favorite or something that you're really excited to kind of dive in with your principals on? 30:39 Well, you know, before being specific, I want to be general, again, here just for a moment. And that and, you know, I think the importance of this can't be emphasized too much. And that is one of the things in my practice, that I found was there were things that I just, quote, knew how to do. After a certain number of years, there was a maybe something that the district, you know, asked, and an example is, you know, at one time, we had, we had to do every year a presentation called state of the school, in the district that I happen to be in. And so when, when you had been around a long time, you kind of knew the not only the pieces that would go into a good state of the school presentation, but also how to get the information for that. And people who were new or new ish, right, people who hadn't been around a long time, they needed help visualizing what what that entailed. Because you know, the final product, even if somebody just looked at somebody else's final product, like send me yours, not knowing what went into that was, was a problem that would cause them the next year to have the same problem. You know, what I'm saying? And so, Tommy has brought up before, you know, the developing your stump speech, right. So one of the pieces of advice that I have given to people who are becoming new administrators is you're taking over the place that has, you know, developed a culture that is whatever that culture is, but you as the person coming in, have some things that are important to you, that you need to communicate to people so that when, later on, you know, it's different than what they've been used to. They will have known right from the beginning, what you what is important to you. And so developing your stump speech is a means of communicating with other people about things that are important to you. And so that particular project is something that somebody might not just know, like you were talking about before, John, you know, people, they don't just don't just know, like you were talking about the secondary principals, they've, you know, they're put into a position and they're expected to just know, but this is something that is that you have to overtly and consciously and purposefully work on. So that it saves you problems later. And so the project would be, you know, what goes into developing that your stump speech? How do you, you know, crystallize in your mind, what are a couple of important things that you want to communicate to people so that they know who you are, and what your expectations will be? And then you know, how to lay roll that up for, for people, I 33:43 live in breed systems, that's just who I am. Asked, whether it be in my personal life or professional life, if something isn't going right, I look at a system and what is setting up that needs to be fixed. And so what I would work with principals on is help them understand. You set up systems and your monitor system, so you don't have to micromanage your people. One great example, or easy to understand example is data. You know, you're gonna give these assessments throughout the year. Get them on the calendar. Okay? So you're going to get data from those assessments. So you put on the calendar when you're going to analyze that data. So that'd be another day. And then how are you going to communicate that data? And then what adjustments are you going to make? So to me that is a system that you just follow? Time after time after time, and then communication, and then discipline and then your t tests observations? To me, you systemize all of them, automate maybe 90% of your year. So you just worked your systems, and if something's not working, you Go back to what do I need to adjust? To me like Marty's, after 17 years, I just, that's the way I work it, you find a brand new principal, they're like, what's the system? You know? So I think this whole project will be so beneficial to so many new principles. I'm excited about building the content for it. 35:28 Yeah, one thing that I mean, you think so you hear Marty talk, and then you hear John talking, you see that, they're, they're different, right? They had a different approach, possibly, you know that, but you can see the flavor, right, there's a flavor behind and their, their culture that they build. And I, you know, as, as a company, we just, we don't have content partners, we don't have I'm sorry, we don't have content experts. In our company, that are building this content, we, we go find people like Marty and John, that have these different flavors that have these, they're looking at the same problem from a slightly different perspective. And, and what's important by about that is that in, in this particular product and service that we're offering, the principle, so if there's a topic, whatever the topic is, there's going to be three or four courses from different people that they'll take to start with, they all find people that they really gravitate to. So that person might be the one that they look for, to be a coach or to be a mentor, like there's just a natural organic connection. But a lot of times what happens is, you get to see just one person talking about one thing from one perspective, and it and in it a lot of times, then you try to mold like, if I try to mold my personality into, or my, the way I do things into something that just doesn't fit, it makes it really challenging. But in this case, you can find the ones that you can really gravitate to and go with. So I just love, that's, that's so exciting to me, because, you know, Marty, and John, they're different people, they have different experiences, and how I want to know, how do you do something? You know, how do you do something in John Marty, how do you do it? John, how did you do it? And, and it's, you know, there's nothing right or wrong about it, or I mean, there's not like, you know, it's just, I like this one better, right, and we'll go for it. So that's one of the things. The other thing I think is that's important is that the program, what it'll have is, is we have two approaches, right? One is for for newer, or even struggling, or you know, the needing to develop administrator. So there's, there's like a one year pathway for There's a principle one, and then it it, the topics go deeper and go bigger with principle to write, we also have an AP One in AP two, and then aspiring leader one and aspiring leader two. So that's one approach. And what's interesting about it is that in some cases, the projects for like an AP and a principal will be different, because there are different roles. But sometimes, like for culture, like assessing your culture, they will be aligned, so that they're having the same course they're learning the same language the same, they have the same definitions and, and words that they're using. And then to accomplish that project, the principal has a role in accomplishing that project, but so does the AP, the AP has a different role. And they can work together on projects, and they just will have that common language and that the outcome will be the same. So we're aligning all of those together. But then the other approach that we have is, What about those principles that have a lot of experience, but they just have some key areas that they need to develop. So what we're, we're, we're, once we launched this, then we're going to start developing, and we don't know what we're going to call it yet. And they're going to be like badges or maybe microprudential or something. But it'll be on a specific topic. And it'll just go real deep. So let's say we're talking about school systems, or, yeah, school systems. Well, John, might be the guy to build five or six hours of training that goes really in depth on systems, he might take one system and dive into it, take another system and dive into it. So that and then from there, there's virtual peer network conversations, and there's a project that comes out of it along with some mentoring. So, somebody can just say, I want that, that whole in depth topic, I want to go deep on that topic. And so there will be topics for discipline for culture for all of those things. So they They can take one or so somebody's finishing principle one and two can then go and do 40:03 and I'll do that content. Right. So if that sounds great, go deeper on. Yeah, 40:07 that's awesome. 40:11 I'll start working on John. Yeah, 40:12 I'll sign I'll say, you're signed up already. 40:20 What are some other things that you would just like our audience to know about this specific project, we're coming up on our time here. But before we do that, what what are some things that some other pieces that you feel like, make this really special that you want to make sure our audience is aware of? 40:40 Well, I can tell you that from having been part of the process, the you know, the intent is to create successful people who can lead successful schools to be successful for teachers and students and communities. And I think that basis is such a strong, unnecessary piece of what the project entails, it's, it is so focused on the participants success, that it is, you know, it's inevitable that people will become stronger and better at what they do 41:18 passionate may not even be strong enough word, but being at a school that's 10%, eco does and a school that's 95%, eco does, I realize how much the building leadership matters, in in helping those students grow bilingual to monolingual, a fluent to really impoverished kids, they need a strong leader. And so anything I can do individually or with a project like this, I'm in because they need it. I 41:59 just to piggyback on that. There's, I saw some data on I think it was in the Wallace Foundation report that talks about the difference between a school having the difference on student achievement between having a good leader, and it wasn't, it wasn't even a great leader, it was just a good leader, to somebody that's below, you know, not so good leader, I just say the difference is like in math is three months of learning. Three months, it's a, it's, I guess that would be a third, a third of learning. That's the difference between having a good leader and a poor leader. In reading, it's also about three months, I think I'm probably rounding up a little bit, I think it's like 2.7 months for math and 2.9 months for reading. That is, that's such an enormous difference. Because then you start to think about those kids, when they go to the next grade level. Now they're there, you know, you just compounded as you keep going on. So building really great leaders is is is such an important thing. I mean, I'm, I'm stumbling on all these all these reports and stuff, and I'm just getting really excited about it. So one thing I wanted to also say is that, you know, there are some school districts that are doing, you know, probably doing some decent jobs in developing their leaders. And, you know, they, if all they wanted was we just need good PD, they can just buy the PD portion, and just use it in their current system, right? If they wanted the PD and the virtual peer networking, and then they do everything else, they can do that as well. I mean, there's, there's different ways to chew on this. And it's not like a one size fits all, we know that, that there's a lot of amazing work happening. And we just want to have these pieces that can plug into to what they're doing to just make them better, right. And it also takes a load off of them who you can't find an educator that that doesn't have a full plate, you know, and so if we can help make that better and easier than we'd love to do that. 44:22 Awesome. All right. Well, if there's nothing else, any last thoughts or comments? 44:28 I'll say one more thing. Sorry. I mentioned that we don't have the content experts and we're not It's not like we are building our own content. We're building we're partnering with with other experts that have started that have gone from they've retired usually sometimes they haven't. Some of guys are still you know active in schools or active Lee administering schools. But they're starting consulting businesses. They're thinking about their future. And you know, when we partner with them, we're not, we're not. There's we don't want, we don't want them. And we're our model is so that they don't think whatever you're doing will take business away from me, we're wanting to build it in a way that we're aligning ourselves with all of these partners to help them build their consulting businesses. And we're finding these great consultants, so why not, I mean, why not put wind in their sails, and then with their work, they're putting wind in our sails, and the who wins, everybody wins, right? That the principles are winning, the schools are winning, parents are winning, kids are winning. And so that's pretty exciting. And it just 45:48 reminds me of how our l got started, you know, kick car was out in Del city, a very rural rural in the middle of nowhere kind of district and wanted to connect her people with the presenters that would never come to Dell city, or Dell said he couldn't afford to bring them in. And building that bridge between these fantastic experts. And the people that need that information is still what we're doing and is still a part of our mission. Because we want to serve these people and those places that need it. And I'm just so excited, how much more of that we're gonna be able to do with the work that you guys are doing on this project. Any other last thoughts before we go today, guys, 46:34 if I hadn't said it enough, John, and Marty, it's just an honor to be working with you guys. 46:38 So much. Thank you. 46:42 feeling's mutual, for sure. 46:45 Well, thank you guys so much. I really appreciate you taking the time to do a little bit. You'll have a great rest of your day. Wasn't that incredible? Like I said, I'm so excited for this project to get underway. If you have questions, if you'd like more information, if you're hearing this and thinking, wow, I want in on that. Please visit responsive learning.com And you can find more information there. We really can't wait to launch this and get it up and running and build this community of administrators that are bent on helping each other and building community and skill building and all all that good stuff that we know is so necessary but often don't know how to make it happen. As always, this episode is produced by Erwin soul bought and all of our design and logo work is from Alana cannoli at field consulting. This podcast along with our School Leadership Academy is a labor of so much love from me and the other folks at responsive learning. I hope y'all have a great rest of your day. Transcribed by https://otter.ai

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